Biden on executive orders in October, 2020

[Rate This]

Repealing the 17th Amendment would just make the Senate even more unresponsive and less effective.

And you can offer proof of this?

Why should 550,000 thousand Wyomings have the same number of Senate votes than 39,000,000 Californians?

Because the two Senator's represent the sovereign state of Wyoming, not the citizens of Wyoming. California is one state as is Wyoming. The House of Representatives represent the people. California has 52 and Wyoming has 1.

This is the most blatant example of a non-democracy I've ever seen. How can you justify it?

The United States of America is not a democracy. Democracies scared the bejesus out of the framers. We are a Representative Republic.

That last part is semantics. We are a representative democracy. We have a democratic process. We are also a republic. We are also a western democracy. All of those things fit the description. Last I checked the Federal Government wasn’t the only game in town. We have other governmental levels (states, counties, cities etc.) that most certainly are democracies. When people say we are a democracy they don’t mean a pure democracy where every decision gets a vote of the people. They mean we the people democratically elect representatives.

Prior to the 17th amendment the swamp surrounding state legislatures appointing senators was intolerable. That’s why the amendment was passed. The legislatures doing the appointing was a terrible method of operation.

[MotorCityRadioFreak]

Repealing the 17th Amendment would just make the Senate even more unresponsive and less effective.

And you can offer proof of this?

Why should 550,000 thousand Wyomings have the same number of Senate votes than 39,000,000 Californians?

Because the two Senator's represent the sovereign state of Wyoming, not the citizens of Wyoming. California is one state as is Wyoming. The House of Representatives represent the people. California has 52 and Wyoming has 1.

This is the most blatant example of a non-democracy I've ever seen. How can you justify it?

The United States of America is not a democracy. Democracies scared the bejesus out of the framers. We are a Representative Republic.

It's a fine balance. The Framers were trying to make sure the small were not ignored. It was brilliant.

[Mark Elliott]

Because the two Senator's represent the sovereign state of Wyoming, not the citizens of Wyoming.

And now we get to the crux of the matter.

A sovereign state is a political entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. ... It is also normally understood that a sovereign state is neither dependent on nor subjected to any other power or state emphasis mine.

Wyoming is clearly NOT a sovereign state. It is dependent on the power of the sovereign state of The United States of America for many services and protections. (I don't even want to get into the idea that the "state of Wyoming" is something other than its citizens.) As it stands the Represenative Republic of the USA does not offer equal representation if the Senators from Wyoming can either block or enact legislation that affects the pocketbooks of the residents of other states.

The total Federal government spends at about 30% of the Gross Domestic Product of the US. Total spending for all 50 states is about
5 - 7%. State lines are arbitrary and you can change from a resident of Wyoming to a resident of California by signing a card at the Post Office.

Democracies scared our Founding Fathers because they were the same elites that many Conservatives wail about today. They wanted white property owners to control the country and wanted to keep a large percentage of the population under lock and key.

We need a new Constitutional Convention in America - who are we and what do we want to be? And everyone's voice should be heard.

[Bryce]

Because the two Senator's represent the sovereign state of Wyoming, not the citizens of Wyoming.

And now we get to the crux of the matter.

A sovereign state is a political entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. ... It is also normally understood that a sovereign state is neither dependent on nor subjected to any other power or state emphasis mine.

Wyoming is clearly NOT a sovereign state. It is dependent on the power of the sovereign state of The United States of America for many services and protections.

Are you saying the Government of the State of Wyoming is not sovereign? Not empowered to make it's own unique laws? Govern differently from neighboring states? If so, you are mistaken.

Case in point. Compare the speed limits of Wyoming to New York. How about their gun laws?

[Rate This]

Because the two Senator's represent the sovereign state of Wyoming, not the citizens of Wyoming.

And now we get to the crux of the matter.

A sovereign state is a political entity that is represented by one centralized government that has sovereignty over a geographic area. ... It is also normally understood that a sovereign state is neither dependent on nor subjected to any other power or state emphasis mine.

Wyoming is clearly NOT a sovereign state. It is dependent on the power of the sovereign state of The United States of America for many services and protections.

Are you saying the Government of the State of Wyoming is not sovereign? Not empowered to make it's own unique laws? Govern differently from neighboring states? If so, you are mistaken.

Case in point. Compare the speed limits of Wyoming to New York. How about their gun laws?

It is not sovereign. It is autonomous from the national government. However it is subordinate to them legally.

[Mark Elliott]

Are you saying the Government of the State of Wyoming is not sovereign? Not empowered to make it's own unique laws? Govern differently from neighboring states? If so, you are mistaken.

Case in point. Compare the speed limits of Wyoming to New York. How about their gun laws?

So we can't even agree to definitions..

Yes, US states can make unique laws and govern differently from other states, but that does not make it a sovereign state.

Sovereign - adj - having supreme rank, power, or authority.

The state of Wyoming does not have supreme rank, power or authority over itself. It cannot create an army and attack New York, it can't deport someone back to New York, it cannot close its borders to New Yorkers, it must honor a contract or agreement made or signed in New York. Its citizens must pay income taxes to and obey laws enacted by a government that has a more supreme rank. It had to adjust its speed limits in 1974 because a higher ranking authority passed a law, and it was allowed to increate those limits after given permission of the same higher ranking authority.

How do you define sovereign?

And please continue to pick and choose which parts of your arguments to defend. If the US is a "representative republic" why are the residents of Wyoming represented in Congress at a level 5 times greater than the residents of California? The Supreme Court of the US declared that "one person, one vote" is a Constitutional mandate. Which means that the Senate is an unconstitutional body. Prove me wrong.