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You Be The Judge

A place to talk about any topic on your mind (non-broadcasting related). General conversation.
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Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

You Be The Judge

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:01 pm

Grievor: Male, age 47

Seniority: 18 years

Job Title: Fork Lift operator

Rate of Pay: $28.20/hr

Nature of Grievance: Improper Discharge


The Company manufactures one of North America's leading brands of kithchen and bath faucets and fixtures.
They employ 60 people in their machine shop. They make up all the parts from raw brass. They have machines for forming, bending, cutting, threading etc.

The operation results in a lot of scrap brass in the form of cuttings, filings, chunks etc. Brass scrap is high in value so they recover all of it for sale as scrap metal. Under each machine is a wooden box with the Company logo printed on it. All the scrap from the machine falls into the box.

When the box is full the fork lift operator brings an empty box and takes away the full one. He empties the full boxes into a big, steel dumpster style bin at the back of the plant.

When the bin gets filled a local scrap metals dealer comes and takes it away. He pays the Company for the weight of brass contained therein.


One day the Company got a call from the scrap dealer. He told them there was a guy at the gate wanting to sell him a wooden box full of brass and the box had the Company's logo.

Two of the managers drove over to the scrap yard and identified the material as belonging to the Company.

The guy trying to sell the material turned out to be one of their own employees. When they asked him where he got it he said he had found it when he was walking along the railway tracks. They didn't believe his story but told him that even if it was true he would have recognized the scrap as belonging to the Company. He handles thos boxes every day. He should not have tried to sell it.

When he reported in for his next shift, the Company fired him for theft.

In compliance with its duty under the law, the Union filed a grievance alleging improper discharge.

Does the grievance succeed.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

Matt
Posts: 9845
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Where Ben Zonia couldn't cut it

Re: You Be The Judge

Post by Matt » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:20 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:01 pm
Grievor: Male, age 47

Seniority: 18 years

Job Title: Fork Lift operator

Rate of Pay: $28.20/hr

Nature of Grievance: Improper Discharge


The Company manufactures one of North America's leading brands of kithchen and bath faucets and fixtures.
They employ 60 people in their machine shop. They make up all the parts from raw brass. They have machines for forming, bending, cutting, threading etc.

The operation results in a lot of scrap brass in the form of cuttings, filings, chunks etc. Brass scrap is high in value so they recover all of it for sale as scrap metal. Under each machine is a wooden box with the Company logo printed on it. All the scrap from the machine falls into the box.

When the box is full the fork lift operator brings an empty box and takes away the full one. He empties the full boxes into a big, steel dumpster style bin at the back of the plant.

When the bin gets filled a local scrap metals dealer comes and takes it away. He pays the Company for the weight of brass contained therein.


One day the Company got a call from the scrap dealer. He told them there was a guy at the gate wanting to sell him a wooden box full of brass and the box had the Company's logo.

Two of the managers drove over to the scrap yard and identified the material as belonging to the Company.

The guy trying to sell the material turned out to be one of their own employees. When they asked him where he got it he said he had found it when he was walking along the railway tracks. They didn't believe his story but told him that even if it was true he would have recognized the scrap as belonging to the Company. He handles thos boxes every day. He should not have tried to sell it.

When he reported in for his next shift, the Company fired him for theft.

In compliance with its duty under the law, the Union filed a grievance alleging improper discharge.

Does the grievance succeed.
It shouldn't, but it probably did.


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Robert Faygo
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Location: Van Down By The River
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Re: You Be The Judge

Post by Robert Faygo » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:09 pm

How much does a box full of scrap brass weigh? Being that it takes a forklift to move it, I'm guessing this is not something that one would just stumble upon while you're trespassing along railroad tracks.

He stays fired.

And turn him in to CN so he can get a fine for trespassing LOL


Wellllll... la de frickin da

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Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: You Be The Judge

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:39 pm

When I met with him and the Company a couple of days later, his story had changed. It was his wife, not him, who had found it, but not beside the train tracks. She found it along the side of the highway.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

Matt
Posts: 9845
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:18 pm
Location: Where Ben Zonia couldn't cut it

Re: You Be The Judge

Post by Matt » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:44 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:39 pm
When I met with him and the Company a couple of days later, his story had changed. It was his wife, not him, who had found it, but not beside the train tracks. She found it along the side of the highway.
If he didn't try to sell it to the company, it would be one thing...


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: You Be The Judge

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:07 pm

The manager said the Company had not yet reported it to the police but they were prepared to.

He put forward a proposal to settle the grievance.

He offered to change the grievor's employment record from a discharge to resignation and to give him a neutral letter of reference.

If the grievor agreed to the settlement, the Company would not refer the matter to the police.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

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Plate Cap
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:18 am
Location: After the rectifier stack

Re: You Be The Judge

Post by Plate Cap » Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:48 pm

What a complete waste of the company's and union's time, and, perhaps most importantly, the faucet customer's money.

And people can still keep a straight face and whine when a firm has enough of this foolishness and simply moves the work offshore?

I would be ashamed to have any connection whatsoever with this 'grievance'.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: You Be The Judge

Post by Turkeytop » Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:11 pm

Plate Cap wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:48 pm
What a complete waste of the company's and union's time, and, perhaps most importantly, the faucet customer's money.

And people can still keep a straight face and whine when a firm has enough of this foolishness and simply moves the work offshore?

I would be ashamed to have any connection whatsoever with this 'grievance'.
Admittedly, some of them are kind of embarassing. But we have a duty under the law to represent all of our members equally. About 95% of our members never have grievances that requires our representation.


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

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Plate Cap
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:18 am
Location: After the rectifier stack

Re: You Be The Judge

Post by Plate Cap » Sat Jul 02, 2022 7:30 pm

Turkeytop wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:11 pm


Admittedly, some of them are kind of embarassing. But we have a duty under the law to represent all of our members equally. About 95% of our members never have grievances that requires our representation.
I understand.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

User avatar
Turkeytop
Posts: 8854
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: You Be The Judge

Post by Turkeytop » Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:55 pm

So, the manager's proposal to allow the guy to resign and keep the police out of it seemed reasonable to me but not to the grieveor. He believed that I could somehow perform a miracle and get him his job back.

If the Company wanted him to resign and go away they would have to sweeten their offer with some cash.

Arbitration is costly for both the Company and the Union. The Arbitrator's fees and expenses are aportioned equally between the Company and the Union. Then the Company has to pay their Lawyer plus expenses for any witnesses.

Their main witness would have to be the scrap dealer. Companies don't like to piss off a customer by compelling him to attend a hearing.

If an eighteeen year employeee is laid off, under Ontario law, he is entitled to 18 weeks severance pay. In this circumstance the grievor wan't entitled to any severance pay but I used that as a yardstick and proposed that the Company pay the grievor 18 weeks of severance.

Of course, they didn't agree to my proposal but came back with an offer of one week. After some back and forth discussions, we finally settled on two weeks pay.

The Company had their lawyer draw up an agreement setting out the terms of the settlement saying it represented full and final settlement of all matters respecting the grievor's employment with the Company.

The Manager signed for the Company. I signed for the Union and, most importantly, the grievor signed off.

Settled


I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.

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