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You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 12:04 pm
by MotorCityRadioFreak
As some of you know, I am the VP of our condo development.
First of all, there is a big difference between emotional support animals and service dogs. Service dogs are protected by federal law, but the verbiage for emotional support animals vary state by state. So, let's understand any misgivings to start with.
We have a potential buyer for one of our condo units who is looking to get pre approval for an emotional support animal of 75 lbs. She has a letter from her therapist(MA) with a recommendation for her to move in with her 75 lb golden retriever.
Our bylaws state that no dogs are allowed above 30 pounds without an exception from the condo board. Keep in mind, that this unit is 1000 square feet.
What is the law on this? How would you rule? If a doctor makes the recommendation, does it change the standing? We have a lawyer, but $$$$ cause us to want to review this on our own.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 12:24 pm
by Robert Faygo
Goldens do just fine in pop-up campers (lots of experience), so 1000 sq ft is a non-issue.
I'd be an unequivocal yes vote on allowing the dog, but I'm unabashedly positively biased.
The only reservation as a board is that there's no way to hide that he/she is more than 30lbs and you'll probably face endless questions and challenges from others that either don't like big dogs or want their own. Your fall back is the doctor's note. Keep that on file.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 1:18 pm
by Turkeytop
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 12:04 pm
As some of you know, I am the VP of our condo development.
First of all, there is a big difference between emotional support animals and service dogs. Service dogs are protected by federal law, but the verbiage for emotional support animals vary state by state. So, let's understand any misgivings to start with.
We have a potential buyer for one of our condo units who is looking to get pre approval for an emotional support animal of 75 lbs. She has a letter from her therapist(MA) with a recommendation for her to move in with her 75 lb golden retriever.
Our bylaws state that no dogs are allowed above 30 pounds without an exception from the condo board. Keep in mind, that this unit is 1000 square feet.
What is the law on this? How would you rule? If a doctor makes the recommendation, does it change the standing? We have a lawyer, but $$$$ cause us to want to review this on our own.
I have no knowledge of Michigan Law, only Florida. I am on the board of our Resident owned mobile home park and we had the weight restriction in our bylaws. On the advice of our lawyer we removed it. He said it would be unenforceable under the law. Instead we imposte tight responsibilities on the owners of such animals.
A couple of years ago I saw an item in the paper about a condo owner who had rescued an orphaned squirrel after a hurricane. The coindo had a no pets policy.The squirrel had bonded with him and he was fighting with the board to keep it. I don't know how it turned out. We returned home before it was resolved.
BTW. Full disclosure. I'm a dog lover.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 1:20 pm
by Deleted User 14896
Based upon what you said, I would say no if you could. This has the start of a slippery slope written all over it. You allow the most mild mannered breed in. The next person wanting a place has a dog that's not so we'll mannered. It gets too sticky saying yes to one, and no to another.
I suggest you stay in the confines of your existing rules.
Make life easy on #1. You. But first and foremost let me put out front I don't know the law on this. But if there is a legal avenue to avoid big dogs, I say go for it. I like dogs, don't get me wrong. But I've always been a firm believer that big dogs need plenty of room. Yeah, only 1 out of 5 or 10 give you a problem. But when they do, it's YOUR problem.
The board bends the rules and someone gets bit. Need I say more?
Having said all that, are you "hurting" for buyers? If not, how comfortable would you and the board be about saying there's nothing available right now, we'll let you know? The easy way out. Just a thought.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 1:37 pm
by craig11152
I'm a dog guy. Mine is sitting on the couch right now begging for bites of Jimmy Johns. She weighed about 55 lbs.
Having said that I think emotional support animals is a giant snowflake scam.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 2:01 pm
by Deleted User 14896
Hey and since you are the vice president why don't you think about always telling everyone (even current owners) there is a waiting list even if there's a half a dozen or a dozen units open. That gives you an opportunity to do an Eeny Meeny Miny Moe with the applications.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 2:51 pm
by Robert Faygo
Hand picking perspective resident / lying about a waiting list is an open invitation for getting in trouble for violating the Fair Housing Act if someone wanted to push it and are members of a protected class. That's playing with fire, IMO.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 3:42 pm
by MotorCityRadioFreak
Robert Faygo wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 2:51 pm
Hand picking perspective resident / lying about a waiting list is an open invitation for getting in trouble for violating the Fair Housing Act if someone wanted to push it and are members of a protected class. That's playing with fire, IMO.
Correct. We have no waiting list. And given that the applicant has an African American sounding name, I don’t want a civil rights violation. We don’t run our association through lies.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 6:54 pm
by Deleted User 14896
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 3:42 pm
Correct. We have no waiting list. And given that the applicant has an African American sounding name, I don’t want a civil rights violation. We don’t run our association through lies.
Fine. Take the high road. One small favor s'il vous plaît. If it turns to shit, don't get on Buzzboard and go boo hoo.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 10:09 pm
by MotorCityRadioFreak
We’re going to the lawyer as a consult. Turns out one of the three units rented had a new renter move in with a fucking German shepherd without telling anyone in addition to this case.
In addition, our president is moving in to another unit with his fiancé who lives in our complex I learned. He is the one selling to this potential buyer, so he has to recuse himself from this situation. It’s all very complicated.
I remember a few days ago my dear father(because I am his “son”), GG, said this was an easy job.
Would enjoy his fatherly wisdom about right now.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 10:13 pm
by Bryce
I spend a fair amount of time with dogs. I even help train REAL service dogs for disabled veterans. This whole "emotional support animal" thing is a fraud and complete bullshit. There is no legal standing whatsoever. I'd tell her to go pound sand.
Once you set a precedent, you're stuck. What if a new prospective tenant has an "emotional support pig?" How can you deny if you gave the go ahead here?
As far as the German Shepherd thing, unless it has plenty of room outside and allowed to use it daily, the owner should be charged with animal cruelty. A GSD CANNOT be happy and healthy in a 1,000 square foot condo. I have 4000 square feet as well as a half acre to roam daily and even with that I take him and his step sister for a hour walk each day.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 10:19 pm
by MotorCityRadioFreak
Bryce wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:13 pm
I spend a fair amount of time with dogs. I even help train REAL service dogs for disabled veterans. This whole 'emotional support animal" thing is complete bullshit. There is no legal standing whatsoever. I'd tell her to go pound sand.
My cousin has a service dog. I am very familiar with the training required and documents obtained upon completion. My cousin paid over $1000 for her dog’s training. And this was a dog that had a head start with military training previously.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Sat May 22, 2021 11:30 am
by MotorCityRadioFreak
Bryce wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:13 pm
I spend a fair amount of time with dogs. I even help train REAL service dogs for disabled veterans. This whole "emotional support animal" thing is a fraud and complete bullshit. There is no legal standing whatsoever. I'd tell her to go pound sand.
Once you set a precedent, you're stuck. What if a new prospective tenant has an "emotional support pig?" How can you deny if you gave the go ahead here?
As far as the German Shepherd thing, unless it has plenty of room outside and allowed to use it daily, the owner should be charged with animal cruelty. A GSD CANNOT be happy and healthy in a 1,000 square foot condo. I have 4000 square feet as well as a half acre to roam daily and even with that I take him and his step sister for a hour walk each day.
That landlord has been renting here for 20+ years and knows better. That's what pisses me off more.
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 1:03 pm
by G G
Re: You Be the Judge: Emotional Support Animals and Housing Accommodations
Posted: Sun May 23, 2021 1:13 pm
by Turkeytop
G G wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 12:00 pm
Here is a simple solution, boys.
Hire three auditing firms with strong reputations and let their forensics squads take a look. Let them report their findings separately.
Boom.