You Be The judge

[Turkeytop]

The Company operates a plant in a small, southern Ontario town, where they manufacture boilers for heating systems.

Griever #1 – Male, age 44
Job Title - Welder
Rate of Pay - $32.75/hr
Seniority - 17 years
Employee Record - Good


Grievor #2 – Male, age 36
Job Title - Welder
Rate of Pay - $32.75/hr
Seniority – 8 years
Employee Record - Good

The two men often worked together, but on this one hot, steamy day in August they were getting under each other’s skin and baiting each other all day. In the middle of the afternoon they were suddenly down on the floor, throwing punches. Their coworkers managed to separate them before either of them got hurt.

The foreman had witnessed the fight and fired both of them right on the spot.

The Union filed grievances for each of them, alleging improper discharge and requesting
Reinstatement with no loss of seniority, wages or benefits

The Union and Company went through the grievance procedure as set out in the collective agreement and were unable to resolve the matter.

The collective agreement provides that when the grievance procedure has been exhausted the Union can apply to have the grievance heard by an independent Arbitrator.

Would the Union succeed at Arbitration?

[Rate This]

The Company operates a plant in a small, southern Ontario town, where they manufacture boilers for heating systems.

Griever #1 – Male, age 44
Job Title - Welder
Rate of Pay - $32.75/hr
Seniority - 17 years
Employee Record - Good


Grievor #2 – Male, age 36
Job Title - Welder
Rate of Pay - $32.75/hr
Seniority – 8 years
Employee Record - Good

The two men often worked together, but on this one hot, steamy day in August they were getting under each other’s skin and baiting each other all day. In the middle of the afternoon they were suddenly down on the floor, throwing punches. Their coworkers managed to separate them before either of them got hurt.

The foreman had witnessed the fight and fired both of them right on the spot.

The Union filed grievances for each of them, alleging improper discharge and requesting
Reinstatement with no loss of seniority, wages or benefits

The Union and Company went through the grievance procedure as set out in the collective agreement and were unable to resolve the matter.

The collective agreement provides that when the grievance procedure has been exhausted the Union can apply to have the grievance heard by an independent Arbitrator.

Would the Union succeed at Arbitration?

This is a fun one, you should do many of these.

Is there anything in the contract or handbook that addresses fighting?

[Turkeytop]

This is a fun one, you should do many of these.

Is there anything in the contract or handbook that addresses fighting?

No. I don'y know of any collective agreement that permits fighting. In any workplace, the employer has the right to make reasonable rules and regulations, provided such rules are made known to the employees and are applied fairly in a nondiscriminatory manner.

Fighting is generally regarded as one of the most serious workplace offenses.

[Deleted User 24]

I hope the union lost.

[Bryce]

but on this one hot, steamy day in August they were getting under each other’s skin

Would the Union succeed at Arbitration?

Union wins. Employer failed to provide a comfortable work environment and contributed to the unrest.

[Turkeytop]

Union wins. Employer failed to provide a comfortable work environment and contributed to the unrest.

I wish I had thought of that argument. I might have tried it.

[Rate This]

This is a fun one, you should do many of these.

Is there anything in the contract or handbook that addresses fighting?

No. I don'y know of any collective agreement that permits fighting. In any workplace, the employer has the right to make reasonable rules and regulations, provided such rules are made known to the employees and are applied fairly in a nondiscriminatory manner.

Fighting is generally regarded as one of the most serious workplace offenses.

Both are toast and the union loses.

[Turkeytop]

In any discipline or discharge case, the burden of proof is on the employer. They must prove the employee is guilty of the alleged offense. It's pretty clear these guys were both guilty. There were lots of witnesses.

But then they must show that the level of discipline administered was appropriate for the offense. Sometimes, when an employee is clearly guilty, an arbitrator may decide to set aside the discharge and substitute some lesser penalty.

[Rate This]

In any discipline or discharge case, the burden of proof is on the employer. They must prove the employee is guilty of the alleged offense. It's pretty clear these guys were both guilty. There were lots of witnesses.

But then they must show that the level of discipline administered was appropriate for the offense. Sometimes, when an employee is clearly guilty, an arbitrator may decide to set aside the discharge and substitute some lesser penalty.

Everywhere I have been fighting was grounds for immediate dismissal both union and non-union.

[Bryce]

Everywhere I have been fighting was grounds for immediate dismissal both union and non-union.

Some workplaces give you a medal if you do it well enough, in the right situation. Some look rather impressive.

[Turkeytop]

Some workplaces give you a medal if you do it well enough, in the right situation. Some look rather impressive.

You must be referring to professional hockey.



I called the Company's Lawyer. I suggested to him that since the facts in both cases are the same, there would be little use in paying the cost of having two separate hearings, we should take just one of the cases to arbitration and apply the Arbitrator's decision to both of them.

After talking with his client, he called me back and told me the Company was in agreement.

I decided to take Grievor #1 to Arbitration. Grievor #2 was loud, angry and hot headed. Not likely to win much sympathy from an arbitrator.

[audiophile]

Union wins. The boiler company name was WWF.

[TC Talks]

Grevior #1 and 2 are dismissed with some amount of compensation consummate to their seniority.

In truth, the company is losing good workers, and I wonder if #2's role is greater than #1.

[Turkeytop]

An Arbitrator will consider mitigating evidence when deciding whether a worker deserves a second chance. Mitigating factors to consider are length of seniority, previous disciplinary record, and financial hardship. Grievor #1 checked all of those boxes. Seventeen years seniority, spotless record, hard worker. He was illiterate. Finding new employment would have been difficult. We also introduced evidence as to his good character. He was respected in the community. He coached the kid's baseball team.

In his written award the Arbitrator addressed the seriousness of fighting in the workplace, especially in an industrial setting. He said a severe penalty was warranted. He reduced the discharge to a six month, unpaid suspension. By then he had already been off the job for almost six months so was able to return to work in a couple more weeks.

I called Grievor #2 and gave him the news. He said he didn't want to go back just yet. He wanted time off to do some fishing.
I told him he would have to return to work and request a leave of absence.

The last I heard, Grievor #1 is still with the Company and is a valued employee.

Grievor #2 went back to work but lasted only a few days. When they turned down his request for leave, he became angry an punched the foreman. They fired him again and he stayed fired.

Within a year he was divorced after being convicted of assaulting his wife.

Within two years he was dead.

[Rate This]

An Arbitrator will consider mitigating evidence when deciding whether a worker deserves a second chance. Mitigating factors to consider are length of seniority, previous disciplinary record, and financial hardship. Grievor #1 checked all of those boxes. Seventeen years seniority, spotless record, hard worker. He was illiterate. Finding new employment would have been difficult. We also introduced evidence as to his good character. He was respected in the community. He coached the kid's baseball team.

In his written award the Arbitrator addressed the seriousness of fighting in the workplace, especially in an industrial setting. He said a severe penalty was warranted. He reduced the discharge to a six month, unpaid suspension. By then he had already been off the job for almost six months so was able to return to work in a couple more weeks.

I called Grievor #2 and gave him the news. He said he didn't want to go back just yet. He wanted time off to do some fishing.
I told him he would have to return to work and request a leave of absence.

The last I heard, Grievor #1 is still with the Company and is a valued employee.

Grievor #2 went back to work but lasted only a few days. When they turned down his request for leave, he became angry an punched the foreman. They fired him again and he stayed fired.

Within a year he was divorced after being convicted of assaulting his wife.

Within two years he was dead.

Griever #2 sounds like one disturbed individual...