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Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

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bmw
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Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by bmw » Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:22 pm

These have to be the most boring transmissions in existence. I discovered one today while in Oscoda that I didn't even know was on the air - 1610 AM, broadcasting from somewhere along River Road in Oscoda. This and others I've heard before have literally 2-3 minutes of total looped content.

Its signal did carry a ways - I could still discern what was being said into the north edge of East Tawas and could even hear faint blips of a voice into the south edge of Tawas City - at least 10 miles from wherever the transmitter is located.

It is hard to find out much info online on the details of specific stations.



Marcus
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by Marcus » Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:59 pm

The Bluewater Bridge still has one at 1610 kHz. It used to come in as easily at night as it did during the day. Now a Toronto station is on 1610 with 10 KW.



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TC Talks
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by TC Talks » Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:34 pm

Does it still discus how the Air Force fucked up one of Michigan's best fishing rivers as you get into Oscoda?

The Sleeping Bear Dunes one is pretty decent...


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Turkeytop
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:46 pm

Marcus wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:59 pm
The Bluewater Bridge still has one at 1610 kHz. It used to come in as easily at night as it did during the day. Now a Toronto station is on 1610 with 10 KW.
I cross that bridge. Why don't they let travelers know it's available?


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bmw
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by bmw » Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:15 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:34 pm
Does it still discus how the Air Force fucked up one of Michigan's best fishing rivers as you get into Oscoda?

The Sleeping Bear Dunes one is pretty decent...
It actually did mention something about the Air Force base, but I don't remember what.



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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by Plate Cap » Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:54 pm

bmw wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:22 pm

It is hard to find out much info online on the details of specific stations.
The licenses are administered under Part 90; the listings are in the ULS database.

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSea ... icense.jsp

I'm not seeing a 1610 in the Oscoda area, but I didn't research it thoroughly.

Boring they are; they are intended to be public safety aids (a lot of people in cars needing information about something going on in a limited area). They are perfect for some situations, like bridges and theme parks informing people on the top couple "FAQs" that need to be answered to navigate in properly. Safer than the driver juggling a smartphone.

In practice they are generally poorly maintained, and are often the forgotten stepchildren of cities that initially got them for a good reason but never kept them up. The information needs to be fresh, audible, and relevant.

The unfamiliarity with and resultant disuse of AM by the general public, the discontinuance of AM in vehicles, the poor maintenance earlier adopters have, and the cost will likely doom the systems. It was another good idea that was lost in the implementation.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by Round Six » Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:12 pm

We have one near us. Above 1600. Forgot the exact freq. All it does is retransmit 162.550.


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bmw
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by bmw » Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:23 pm

Plate Cap wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:54 pm
https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSea ... icense.jsp

I'm not seeing a 1610 in the Oscoda area, but I didn't research it thoroughly.
I found it.

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSea ... ey=1230565

According to that data, the license expired nearly a year ago. So are they operating illegally, or is that information just out of date?

As an aside, they actually have 3 transmitters according to the map.



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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:37 am

Sterling Heights has one at AM 1700, which is well publicized on roadway city limits signs. Warren has (had?) one at AM 1690.

Southfield and Troy each used to have one, I think, but they've long since been discontinued.

During Dream Cruise along Woodward, I've heard one such station operate on a temporary basis above 1600 kHz somewhere, likely 1640 AM per info I found here:
https://theradiosource.com/resources/st ... all.htm#MI

I do have to say the recorded broadcast loop I heard on that station several years back was relatively amusing, as the announcer was cracking jokes about the Dodge Journey. :)

Several municipal information stations that I've heard over the years simply rebroadcast NOAA weather radio programming much of the time.

Years ago, I do remember seeing signs along I-94 for a Metro Airport information station at AM 920. That, I presume, went away once WFDF moved into the market.



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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by ZenithCKLW » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:21 am

Livonia has one on 1670. Was hoping they’d put it to better use during some emergencies we had this winter. But nope.

I live off Hines Park, and I noticed this year there was a new TIS on 1640 for the Hines Drive Christmas Lights. Blasted my radio away. It’s gone now. Maybe it will return next Christmas.



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Plate Cap
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by Plate Cap » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:28 am

bmw wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:23 pm


I found it.

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSea ... ey=1230565

According to that data, the license expired nearly a year ago. So are they operating illegally, or is that information just out of date?

As an aside, they actually have 3 transmitters according to the map.
That link is the public facing version of the FCC database for Part 90 licensees; it's quite accurate and changes by the minute on a work day. That license has been expired for over 20 years. I don't see that length of expiration very often.

It is not uncommon for licensees under this part to operate after expiration. Many are MPSCS subscribers for the rest of their public safety comms needs, and as such figure things like licenses are "old school" and don't bother. Renewal mills send out official looking marketing pieces that cause people to overlook any real communications. A lot of public safety entities have lost some pretty cherry, non-relicenseable authorizations (tall antenna heights, large ERPs, etc.) by ignoring renewals.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Plate Cap
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by Plate Cap » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:34 am

ZenithCKLW wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:21 am
Livonia has one on 1670. Was hoping they’d put it to better use during some emergencies we had this winter. But nope.
Municipal emergency managers oftentimes change regularly; it is often a landing spot for local police officers who've gotten the credentials and are doing the job later in their career. They may or may not know the tool is in the tool box; its details may not have been handed down through the changes in management over the years, they may be uncomfortable with it, it may not be getting the service it needs, etc.
ZenithCKLW wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:21 am
I live off Hines Park, and I noticed this year there was a new TIS on 1640 for the Hines Drive Christmas Lights. Blasted my radio away. It’s gone now. Maybe it will return next Christmas.
Good example of my previous comment for 'perfect use' of such systems. For instance, 'eastbound traffic only, parking lights only, no stopping, stay in your car, etc.' Without all this getting through to drivers SOMEHOW, that light display might be chaos.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

bmw
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by bmw » Sat Mar 25, 2023 1:07 pm

Plate Cap wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:28 am
That license has been expired for over 20 years. I don't see that length of expiration very often.
Ha, I misread that, I thought it said 2022. Didn't realize it was 2002. So basically a pirate radio station on the air for over 20 years now.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by Ben Zonia » Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:24 pm

Why is the equalization so bad for a voice transmission? Part 15 transmitters for children sounded better. Also, NOAA stations have bad equalization for voice transmission. Is there some low audio frequency rolloff specified in the rules? It makes it difficult to listen to.

What are the power and antenna limitations on those? Since there are no broadcast stations on 530 or 1610 in the US, there are few restrictions. It should be 25 uV/m at the Canadian border or land areas, no more than 250 uV/m to the 500 uV/m ground wave contour of stations on 540, 1600 and 1620, 5 mV/m to the 5 mV/m of stations on 550, 1590, and 1630, and 25 mV/m to the 25 mV/m of stations on 560, 1580, and 1640. I'm sure almost none are anywhere near that. If they were even half that, it would be a big improvement.
Last edited by Ben Zonia on Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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bmw
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Re: Traveler information stations on AM 530, 1610, etc

Post by bmw » Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:31 pm

I'm pretty sure it is limited to 5khz on the AM band so as to not interfere with adjacent commercial stations which take priority.



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