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Unused AM allocations

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ZenithCKLW
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Unused AM allocations

Post by ZenithCKLW » Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:38 pm

I can think of a few AM stations that have either gone silent, changed frequencies, or moved to FM. What happens with their old AM allocations? How does vacating affect other stations on that frequency?

-540 CBEF
-710 CHYR
-730 CHYR-7
-850 WGVS
-1110 CKTY
-1240 CJCS
-1350 WHMI
-1430 WBRB
-1480 WGVU



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by Ben Zonia » Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:40 pm

The Canadian allotments are in for the long haul. US stations have to protect them. Canadian stations could upgrade and not have to protect them. Some of those US stations are still licensed but on silent STA. Some of the US allotments remain in the Region II Database and Canada has to protect them, but not that many.

Canada should change their DOMESTIC multiple ownership regulations to allow 3 FM and 1 AM, and move some AMs to FM where there is an available allotment. There are numerous allotments in border areas. In Windsor Essex, Chatham Kent, Sarnia Lambton, and other regions though, they've used almost all of them, with many stations of questionable viability, that might better be used to move AMs to FM.
Last edited by Ben Zonia on Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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EdWalker
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by EdWalker » Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:50 pm

There really are no unused AM allocations per se as there has never been a table of assignments like FM and TV.

Once an AM vacates a frequency, others on the same or adjacent frequencies are free to make technical changes that they were previously not allowed to do when the former facility was licensed.

The last case of an “AM Allocation” up for FCC auction were the two licenses of a former St. Louis, MO operator who got them yanked by the FCC. The commission included those frequencies in a recent auction, but there were no bidders.



k8jd
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by k8jd » Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:04 pm

Seems kind of unfair that when Canadian stations go dark in favor of FM freqs, we have to protect the unused channel forever !!!! >:



k8jd
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by k8jd » Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:08 pm

ZenithCKLW wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:38 pm
I can think of a few AM stations that have either gone silent, changed frequencies, or moved to FM. What happens with their old AM allocations? How does vacating affect other stations on that frequency?

-540 CBEF
-710 CHYR
-730 CHYR-7
-850 WGVS
-1110 CKTY
-1240 CJCS
-1350 WHMI
-1430 WBRB
-1480 WGVU
How about the two AM stations in SSM, and Orillia, and St Thomas, ON that have been dark for some years now ????



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by Ben Zonia » Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:32 pm

k8jd wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:08 pm
ZenithCKLW wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:38 pm
I can think of a few AM stations that have either gone silent, changed frequencies, or moved to FM. What happens with their old AM allocations? How does vacating affect other stations on that frequency?

-540 CBEF
-710 CHYR
-730 CHYR-7
-850 WGVS
-1110 CKTY
-1240 CJCS
-1350 WHMI
-1430 WBRB
-1480 WGVU
How about the two AM stations in SSM, and Orillia, and St Thomas, ON that have been dark for some years now ????
Still there. Sometimes if the allotment is moved somewhere else, or a preclusive facility is built, it sometimes disappears. If a replacement is specially negotiated, the old frequency is replaced if preclusive. WBRB 1430, WHGR 1290, and others are still in the Canada database, with the DA parameters. WKNX...WJNL 1210 disappeared from Saginaw and Frankenmuth because they moved. The stations that moved to the expanded band disappeared.


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n8fnr
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by n8fnr » Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:38 pm

Not sure if you know this but CBEF moved from 540 to 1550 in November 2012. Per Wikipedia "The change was requested due to concerns that rust may be affecting the now-obsolete 540 facility, and that nearby hydro electric lines were also affecting its signal". CBE (CBC Radio 1) was on 1550 and they moved to 97.5 and became CBEW.

BTW CBE had been on 1550 since 1950.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by Ben Zonia » Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:09 pm

n8fnr wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:38 pm
Not sure if you know this but CBEF moved from 540 to 1550 in November 2012. Per Wikipedia "The change was requested due to concerns that rust may be affecting the now-obsolete 540 facility, and that nearby hydro electric lines were also affecting its signal". CBE (CBC Radio 1) was on 1550 and they moved to 97.5 and became CBEW.

BTW CBE had been on 1550 since 1950.
The towers are gone, CBEF moved to 1550. The 540 allotment remains in the FCC and Region II Database. Here are the details.

https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&canam=540CBEF

CKWW could theoretically move from 580 to 540 and increase power.


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k8jd
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by k8jd » Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:43 pm

I see WJNL 1210 is still up near Traverse City , Kingsley, MI, and has a CP to reduce daytime power from 50 to 10kW. I guess that takes a lot of electricity and nobody hears them. Last time i was up in Aloha and Cheboygan I could barely hear the signal.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by Ben Zonia » Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:45 pm

Since WJNL got a translator on 101.1 in Traverse City, there isn’t much need for much power anyway. WKNX 1210 Saginaw covered a lot more territory with 10 kW than WJNL does with 50 kW, due to poor measured conductivity in Northern Michigan. WKNX 0.1 mV/m predicted contours went from almost the Ohio State Line to almost the Mackinac Bridge.

Part of the reason the Bridgeport array is good is that the towers are around a half wavelength at 1210 and now 1250 for WJMK. Protecting WJIM 1240 is why WJMK cant go South much on 1250.
Last edited by Ben Zonia on Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Marcus
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by Marcus » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:09 pm

If 560 WRDT and 580 CKWW entered an agreement where CKWW moved down to 540 and WRDT moved up to 580 then they both could improve their signals. They would no longer be second adjacent to each other and WRDT would no longer be required to decrease power at night. If 540 were to use 2,500 watts again, they would have to use a slightly different directional pattern than what CBEF used to have because 530 CHLO in the G.T.A. is now non directional. This would also delete one of the Windsor AM allocations.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by Ben Zonia » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:51 pm

WRDT and CKWW use a multiple contour interference analysis, described in the US Canada AM agreement, to occupy both frequencies 20 kHz apart. That would indicate that the was no area where the 30 to 1 D/U ratio is over land, or is over water or negligible. In Mexico, stations quite often use 20 kHz spacing in the same general service area. I think the Kapuscasing allotment is still there on 580, and of course 540 has to protect CBK at Night. The 540 in Jackson, WI could only get 400 watts at Night.


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ftballfan
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by ftballfan » Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:33 am

k8jd wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:43 pm
I see WJNL 1210 is still up near Traverse City , Kingsley, MI, and has a CP to reduce daytime power from 50 to 10kW. I guess that takes a lot of electricity and nobody hears them. Last time i was up in Aloha and Cheboygan I could barely hear the signal.
I think I saw somewhere that WJNL's tower site is a former toxic waste site. A few months ago, I could barely hear them in Manistee. 580 WTCM is much stronger despite Manistee falling in its null toward WILL



innate-in-you
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by innate-in-you » Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:38 pm

In my decades-long experience of listening to AM stations in NW Lower Michigan, the whole stretch has possibly the lowest soil conductivity anywhere. Don't believe that "8" on the map (I believe any terrain that hasn't been measured because it is rural is given an "8" if they haven't actually sent an engineer there).

WATT used to fade to noise about 6 miles NW of Cadillac.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Unused AM allocations

Post by Ben Zonia » Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:34 pm

Ed DeLaHunt saved the raw data at the FCC on the M-3 Map from what I hear.

It looks like it was done from measured contours of Class I-A and I-B and big city Class II-B and III-A and III-B stations, and the data from the original proof of performance for some early directional antennas. But that doesn't explain why Kent County, MI says 8 on M-3, and WOOD 1300 being a very early directional antenna system, one of about 40 authorized before WW II. 2 around WKZO, and 8 around the old WFDF Bristol Rd. site, WWJ on 8 Mile, and WXYZ from the old Joy Rd. location. Those were all authorized in the 1935 to 1940 era. And WJR measured data for the 15 patch next to Lake Huron and Lake St. Clair. Other places, they didn't measure, where there were just 250 watt Class IVs at the time.

There are perhaps a dozen on more stations in Michigan who have done POPs to upgrade, which are available on the FCC website. Very few measured radials are anywhere near M-3.


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