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Downriver AM transmitters

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fuzzpower
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by fuzzpower » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:37 pm

Is the 950 allotment in Barrie even usable now? There’s a 960 (CKNT) now in Mississauga, albeit it at under 1000 watts day.



CK-722
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by CK-722 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:58 pm

fuzzpower wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:37 pm
Is the 950 allotment in Barrie even usable now? There’s a 960 (CKNT) now in Mississauga, albeit it at under 1000 watts day.
As long as CKBB 950 is in the international database, they have to protect it like it was an actual station with the specified facilities.

When WYLL 1160 went to 50000 Watts Nighttime, they switched the new vacant Thunder Bay, ON allotment from 1160 to 1170 in order to do it. Unless you are way up there like by Thunder Bay, it's difficult to substitute.


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innate-in-you
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by innate-in-you » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:04 pm

k8jd wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:52 pm
I know one area station that is NOT aimed North , located near Mt Clements on 1030 with daylight operation only ! Aimed south west to protect WBZ !

WUFL !
In its beginning, it was beaming to the North with two towers, and not that many people got an excellent signal from it.

About 5 years in, they brought in consultants in, who measured the actual soil conductivity around the site.

With the new figures, they were able to beam west, instead of north, with a new 3-tower array.



Kennelly Heaviside
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by Kennelly Heaviside » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:19 pm

Actually, if you look at the application for changing WUFL, you'll find that they used the proof of performance measurements for the original DA in 1988. They found out almost immediately that they could let out the nulls toward WJTB 1040 North Ridgeville, OH, toward Detroit. WJTB went off the air in 2017 and was deleted. That is a big advantage in doing real proofs vs. Method of Moments. You can find out right away if you can let out nulls, use less towers, etc. The WUFL and WDEO applications online show you what the real conductivities are in NW Oakland County. Both radials cross near Wixom and both were 4 mS/m in that area vs. 8 mS/m on the M-3 Map. If you find the actual original 1988 DA Proofs, you will see that there are even more radials, especially to the NW from the WUFL site, that are even lower. The Proof radials coverage map makes it look like there is a null, rather than the major lobe, near the old pattern maximum. They did the new WJTB measurements in 2003. Links are below. Now WUFL might not even need nulls even that deep toward Detroit. It would be interesting to see what they could do to improve the signal toward Detroit by changing the DA pattern. If they let the nulls out, it would also improve the signal into the Thumb.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Att ... &exhcnum=1

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Att ... &exhcnum=2

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS_Att ... &exhcnum=3
Last edited by Kennelly Heaviside on Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.


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k8jd
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by k8jd » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:42 pm

CK-722 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:09 pm
R), and lived in Southgate, about a mile from WDEE...WLQV 1500, and could barely hear 1500 at Night in Southgate.

Back then, with 12 towers, they were REALLY tight directional north. down to 5 kW at night too.
I recall , in the early 60's, going to meetings located around Evergreen and 5 Mile road , on the west side of Detroit and then heading home to Livonia in the evenings. Listened to WJBK, and the signal faded as we went west and finally got on-channel interference when we crossed Inkster road , driving West on on 7 Mile Road.



k8jd
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by k8jd » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:52 pm

LOoks like WUFL three tower pattern is aimed S.W. About 220 degrees.
Aimed right across Detroit's northen suburbs !
Deep nulls to north and S.E.
Don't they have low power FM retransmitters in Detroit ?
Yes ! I see two in Detroit proper, one in Rochester hills, (where hey have a REALLY strog AM signal already, and one in Holly.
I think the site they call "Holly" is Actually right on the Northern end of Pontiac, ???



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by MWmetalhead » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:23 pm

Exactly; the 94.1 MHz translator licensed to "Holly" appears to be located very near Great Lakes Crossing Mall. The coverage area of that signal basically book-ends to the 94.3 MHz translator located along 8 Mile Rd.



Inundated
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by Inundated » Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:25 am

Ed Busch...is that the same Ed Busch who later hosted the overnight syndicated talk show "America Overnight"?



Kennelly Heaviside
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by Kennelly Heaviside » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:06 am

42 36 55 N 83 02 04 W

Original CP coordinates for WDRQ/WUFL 1030. Near Triangle Dr. and Utica Rd. in Sterling Heights.

If you look further at the 1988 conductivity studies at the LIC coordinates, you'll see that the 160 degree and 176 degree are both substantially below the M-3 value of 8 mS/m. This allowed them to let out the nulls before completion or soon after construction. They did this by reducing the field ratio of Tower 2 to 0.64. Having viewed the original proof maps, it looks like it was originally 0.8 or 0.9. tvbobn might remember more, as the original licensee of 1030. There is a break in the radials from where they hit Lake St. Clair, Canada, and Lake Erie, and pick up in Ohio.


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k8jd
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by k8jd » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:40 pm

Another downriver site I think got skiped is 1200, now WMUZ AM, originally was WCHB where the old 1440 got a new callsign; WMKM !
They are at King Rd and Middlebelt about 6.15 miles West of WJR's tower and 3 miles south of Metro airport.
Looks like two rows of 5 towers parallel and lined up north and south . Main lobe of pattern is a few degrees East of due North.
They went thru a few tower and power changes at first but ended up at 50 K day using only 4 towers and and 15 k night using all 10 towers.



innate-in-you
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by innate-in-you » Sat Feb 05, 2022 1:52 pm

CK-722 wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:37 am
WSGW Night Pattern. Large minor lobe to WSW.

Image
Funny thing about WSGW and its channel (790). It is actually on a Class I channel, with a station in northern Ontario, yet, you won't hear anything, the station in Ontario is now silent!



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WOHO
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by WOHO » Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:19 pm

Not quite downriver, but made a trip up in the dark last week to Twelve Oaks Mall, and like a moth, was attracted to the slowly flashing 320 Watt red beacons of an antenna array behind the mall. What station(s) utilize the towers visible from the mall in Novi?



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by Ben Zonia » Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:33 pm

WCXI and WPON towers are just under 200 feet and unlighted.

You can see all the Southfield Area Antenna Farm Towers all the way from the North Campus of U.of M. on a very clear Winter Night (no leaves anyway). Could it be those lining up to look like an array? How many lights vertically?

The next closest AM arrays are WCAR 1090, with 6 Night 275 foot lighted towers, and 4 unlighted Day towers, and WDEO 990, unlighted below 200 feet, and WSDS 1480, some of whose towers are over 200 feet and lighted. Those are 12 to 15 miles away at least.

What direction were you looking?


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SolarMax
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Re: Downriver AM transmitters

Post by SolarMax » Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:43 pm

WOHO wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:19 pm
Not quite downriver, but made a trip up in the dark last week to Twelve Oaks Mall, and like a moth, was attracted to the slowly flashing 320 Watt red beacons of an antenna array behind the mall. What station(s) utilize the towers visible from the mall in Novi?
There is a set of tall public safety towers east of Novi Road, north of I-96, and there are a few rather tall LMR towers associated with construction firms in that area. No broadcast site near 12 Oaks.



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