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WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

The technical side of broadcasting. Think IBOC is a sham? Talk about it here! How about HDTV? Post DX reports here as well.
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audiophile
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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by audiophile » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:39 am

bmw wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:50 am
Sorry Rich, I'm going to have to disagree with those theoretical numbers. From my actual listening experience, both day and night, WWJ is considerably stronger than WJR in the Tawas and Oscoda area, and has been so for as far back as I can remember. That's not to say that WJR doesn't have a decent signal, but WWJ is the strongest signal on the dial after 1480 WIOS. I would say that WJR's signal strength is more on par with that of WSGW AM 790 than with 950.

This is non-scientific, but off the top of my head, I would rate, on a scale of 1 to 10, the strongest signals on the AM dial here (daytime groudnwave) as follows:

#1 - AM 1480 WIOS - 10.0
#2 - AM 950 WWJ - 8.0
#3 - AM 660 WMIC - 7.0
#4 - AM 790 WSGW - 6.5
#5 - AM 760 WJR - 6.0
FYI: There can be local resonances that effect signal strengths. IE Coax that is connected to an antenna can be a resonant length. We had a gizmotchy beam that two coax cables. When the coax was hooked to the transceiver it made WMIC boom in on a adjacent indoor radio.


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CK-722
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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by CK-722 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:27 am

Along Lake Shore Drive in Chicago, buildings that are approximately 1/4 wavelength at 780-790 block WBBM 780 to the West in certain areas, and enhance WSGW 790 to the East.

On my first exposure to an FIM-21, Dave Gale at WTRX 1330 measured several signals for me, as he was afraid I might drop it. Most of the signals were pretty close to expected, but WMAQ 670 measured 800 microvolts per meter. I suggested that it was because the near 1/2 wave North tower of WTRX acted as a near 1/4 wave at 670 and enhanced the signal. The North tower is 86.6 degrees at 670 kHz.

I suspect that the ductwork and plumbing can act as a reflecting resonant radiator at certain AM BC frequencies.


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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:24 am

950 WWJ seem weaker than usual at this time of day this morning. Not hearing any co-channel interference, but reception isn't as strong as usual.



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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by Deleted User 3751 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:46 am

The engineers may be down in Monroe Co. working on the xmiter. Just saying.



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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by CK-722 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:52 am

Last Night I drove from the Straits Area to the Detroit Area on I-75. The WWJ signal was bad most of the way. WFDF 910 was a lot stronger nearly every time I checked the two. Really, they ought to put a 5 kW-ND AUX back at 8 Mile and Meyers for when they have transmitter problems. It would serve the central Detroit Metro better. From what I see, there is room for a tower. WXYT(Z)'s towers were next to Channel 7's for decades. WRDT 560 uses a skirted arrangement on the Radio Plaza tower.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

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Rich F.
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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by Rich F. » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:45 am

Nighttime skip in the Midwest has been abnormal recently. I've noticed that the Class As within 500-600 miles of my location in west central Illinois have been quite noisy — worse than the Class A signals arriving here from the east coast, at the same time.



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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by k8jd » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:11 pm

Strogest Carrier signal.
Here is my list of today's measurements from 10 Miles West of Pontiac, MI.
Maybe not loudest but highest carrier signal level, Measured with a Yaesu FT990 , using a dipole antenna cut for 1820 KHz (with 150 ft of RG8/U type feedline) I used the 20 dB attenuator to tame the meter. I assume the feedline attenuation ;creeps up as the freq goes down, no way to calculate that exact effect.
I also heard good carrierlevels from most of the AM channels but ignored any below a s5 level (except CKLW that everyone has heard of).

760 WJR S5.5 50 KW 32 miles
800 CKLW s3 50 kW 44 miles
910 WFDF s6 50 kW 36 mi
950 WWJ s6 50 kW 41 miles
990 WDEO s5.5 9.2 kW 23 mi
1090 WCAR s5.5 250 W 19 mi
1130 WDFN s6.5 50 kW 36 mi
1160 WFEN s9 15 kW 5 mi
1200 WMUZ AM s7 50 kW 30.5 mi
1270 WXYT s6 50 kw 38 mi
1310 WDTW s6 5 kW 26 mi
1340 WCHB s5.5 1 kW 20 mi
1460 WPON s9 670 W 5 mi
1500 WLQV s6 50 kW 29 mi
1550 CBEF s6 10 kW 38 miles



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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by k8jd » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:26 pm

CK-722 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:52 am
Last Night I drove from the Straits Area to the Detroit Area on I-75. The WWJ signal was bad most of the way. WFDF 910 was a lot stronger nearly every time I checked the two. Really, they ought to put a 5 kW-ND AUX back at 8 Mile and Meyers for when they have transmitter problems. It would serve the central Detroit Metro better. From what I see, there is room for a tower. WXYT(Z)'s towers were next to Channel 7's for decades. WRDT 560 uses a skirted arrangement on the Radio Plaza tower.
The patterns of the night time antennas are pretty closr but WWJ is slightly favoring the "Thumb" where WFDF goes slightly more to the west toward the bottom of Saginaw Bay !
Maybe, just a bit better in the Mackinac to Detroit driving corridors.



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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by Rich F. » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:52 pm

Below is a clip from VSoft showing some of the higher day/night AM broadcast field intensities at locations about 10 miles west of Pontiac, Michigan.

Image



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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by CK-722 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:54 pm

I've been up and down I-75 Day and Night several times a year for years, and I have never before heard WWJ consistently weaker than WFDF at Night. In the Daytime, they are pretty much equal, and heard easily to just past West Branch. There have been a few Auroral wipeouts when they were both wiped out for an hour or so. WJR comes in better in the Daytime past West Branch. At Night, both WFDF and WWJ are stronger past Gaylord with little fading, as the Skywave is >> than the Groundwave. There is a place, as I recall about 100 miles from WJR, where the Skywave is a minimum due to the 195 degree antenna. It is essentially all Groundwave at that distance. That's around the Tri Cities and Pinconning. WFDF and WWJ have a lot of fading there.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

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k8jd
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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by k8jd » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:38 pm

My field strength list is a direct measurement . The order is pretty close to the theoretical (?) values in the VSoft list.
First and second place is from a nearby Transmiitter site . THE METER READINGS ON THE TIED STATION VALUES were within less than
a half S-unit/ I can blame the discrepancies on my antenna, being resonant at 1820 kHz.
I am , actually, locted exactly halfway between the Macinac bridge and, Wheeling WV !

1. WPON
2. WFEN
3. WMUZ
4. WDFN
5. TIED
CBEF
WLQV
WDTW
WXYT
WWJ
WFDF
6. TIED
WCHB
WJR
WCAR
WDEO
7. CKLW



CK-722
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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by CK-722 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:13 pm

Want to buy and time share an old FIM-21 or FIM-41, anyone? It would only work if we were all close by.

BTW, it looks like tuning and or directionality and or RCVR gain/sensitivity with frequency are a factor with those S meter readings.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

Rich F.
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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by Rich F. » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:49 am

The accurate measurement of radiated e-m field intensities requires a receive antenna with a known "Antenna Factor" for the physical conditions existing when using it to make the measurement.

Below are a few comments about this from the National Institute of Standards and Technology in the U.S.

Image



CK-722
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S Meter Article

Post by CK-722 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:05 pm

An article by W8WWV about S meter calibration problems.

http://www.seed-solutions.com/gregordy/ ... rBlues.htm


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

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Re: WWJ signal problems? (+ WJR audio distortion)

Post by MWmetalhead » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:30 am

WWJ is definitely at reduced power right now (6:30a).

Signal strength is nowhere nearly as strong as usual. Maybe they are at 25 percent of normal strength?



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