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FM Transmitter Range

Topics of general interest that just don't fit anywhere else.
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HD74
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by HD74 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:04 pm

Sorry Vlad, that’s already been answered. Equipment that operates in that range must be used as supplied, screwing with the antenna puts you in violation downtown or in BFI. (Keep it in the states)


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bmw
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by bmw » Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:17 pm

You know what else puts you in violation of federal law? Selling marijuana. So how are there so many pot shops out there operating in plain sight without the feds shutting them down?



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Ben Zonia
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Ben Zonia » Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:53 am

Back around 1990, I wrote a BASIC Program to do Section 73.207 frequency searches, using an Apple IIC. Programs and databases ran into thousands of dollars, so I went to the FCC Field Office in Farmington Hills to go though the data cards to get some station coordinates I needed that I couldn't find elsewhere to build a database for stations I needed for searches. Irby Tallant and Dee Ehret were both there. I asked Dee for some help in finding microfiche cards for certain FM frequencies. Dee was convinced that I was up to something nefarious involving finding police frequencies, and would only dole out the cards one by one and bird dogged me all the time I was there. Then he tried to get me out by telling me that the Windsor Canadian CRTC office closed at 4:30 PM, so if I needed anything there I better leave now. In 1993, Peter Moncure began Radiosoft and I decided to get more reasonably priced software and databases from Peter. After running into artificial obstacles from competitors trying to stop my petitions and applications at every turn, and people who thought that you couldn't do things that you could, and sending invoices for modest amounts that were never paid, I got busier at my paying profession, and gave up for several years.

Dee and I even discussed Part 15, and how the "100 milliwatt limit" only applied to AM BC, not FM BC frequencies, way back then.


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TC Talks
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by TC Talks » Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:30 am

Sounds like you might get in trouble 32 years ago, back when the FCC cared. Seems like they don't these days. Again, name a commercial radio group that has engineers with time to chase this stuff down these days and report it?


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Ben Zonia
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Ben Zonia » Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:30 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:30 am
Sounds like you might get in trouble 32 years ago, back when the FCC cared. Seems like they don't these days. Again, name a commercial radio group that has engineers with time to chase this stuff down these days and report it?
More than likely, both pirate complaints and trying to stop new stations and upgrades usually come from competitors, including engineers.


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TC Talks
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by TC Talks » Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:32 pm

Ben Zonia wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:30 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:30 am
Sounds like you might get in trouble 32 years ago, back when the FCC cared. Seems like they don't these days. Again, name a commercial radio group that has engineers with time to chase this stuff down these days and report it?
More than likely, both pirate complaints and trying to stop new stations and upgrades usually come from competitors, including engineers.
So would a 100w station in TC be in range for the remote monitoring facility in Allegan?


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
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Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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Ben Zonia
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Ben Zonia » Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:10 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:32 pm
Ben Zonia wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:30 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:30 am
Sounds like you might get in trouble 32 years ago, back when the FCC cared. Seems like they don't these days. Again, name a commercial radio group that has engineers with time to chase this stuff down these days and report it?
More than likely, both pirate complaints and trying to stop new stations and upgrades usually come from competitors, including engineers.
So would a 100w station in TC be in range for the remote monitoring facility in Allegan?
Probably not except for really good antennas and receivers. WLLS 99.3 got busted operating such a transmitter from the WLDR tower. The signal was so strong in Traverse City that it raised the eyebrows of MacDonald-Garber, Black Diamond, and Midwestern Broadcasting employees. They did some research and did some measurements, and reported it. As I recall, the FCC came out and made some measurements, and ordered the station to cease the unlicensed operation. I think they lucked out, because they were just given the opportunity to make it legal as a booster, and a slap on the wrist.


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TC Talks
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by TC Talks » Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:23 pm

Northern and Midwestern got together to sleuth 95.9 broadcasting in the state Forrest when Roy lost that. So it's really up to the (now) contract engineers to try to triangulate a pirate signal. If that signal is on a dark translator frequency, it doesn't interfere with their operations. If it's located where you can't legally be within 2 miles of the site, it's going to require a court order to ever find it.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
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Ben Zonia
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FM Transmitter Range

Post by Ben Zonia » Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:46 pm

It would still be illegal, but a 100 milliwatt transmitter from a 222 mV/m @ 1 km efficiency reference dipole at 30 feet AGL, would serve the area of a typical subdivision or large land parcel. That serves more area than any pirate usually claims to need to serve for personal use.


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TC Talks
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by TC Talks » Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:54 pm

Ben Zonia wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:46 pm
It would still be illegal, but a 100 milliwatt transmitter from a 222 mV/m @ 1 km efficiency reference dipole at 30 feet AGL, would serve the area of a typical subdivision or large land parcel. That serves more area than any pirate usually claims to need to serve for personal use.
And if 100% of that land is private, it's a difficult claim unless the complainant is trespassing.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
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Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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Ben Zonia
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Ben Zonia » Wed Apr 19, 2023 11:08 pm

If the 34 dBu contour doesn't leave the person's property, maybe you could argue that if caught, it would be a civil infraction, and with a fine like the once widely touted Ann Arbor $5.00 marijuana fine from decades ago.

Someone in our Buzzboard radio community called Roy a week or so before the 95.9 CP expired and offered Roy a way to legally get it on the air, by changing the TL to a quickly buildable facility, and he turned it down.


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paul8539
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by paul8539 » Sat Apr 22, 2023 4:32 am

Ben: Is the FCC office in Farmington HIlls still there? I haven't heard anything from them for a while.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by Ben Zonia » Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:16 am

paul8539 wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2023 4:32 am
Ben: Is the FCC office in Farmington HIlls still there? I haven't heard anything from them for a while.
They closed it around 2016.

https://www.insideradio.com/free/fcc-be ... 3889d.html


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k8jd
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by k8jd » Fri May 12, 2023 2:59 pm

Who mentioned hiding tha box and antenna in a tree on state land. ? This 1000 W transmitter will need a 20A #12 Romex power wire going to it , assuming about 2 kW of 120 VAC power to generate 1 Kw of RF output.power .
I sure would leave a $1000+ of gear behind ANYWHERE!



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audiophile
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Re: FM Transmitter Range

Post by audiophile » Sat May 13, 2023 9:12 pm

Ben Zonia wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:10 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 5:32 pm
Ben Zonia wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:30 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:30 am
Sounds like you might get in trouble 32 years ago, back when the FCC cared. Seems like they don't these days. Again, name a commercial radio group that has engineers with time to chase this stuff down these days and report it?
More than likely, both pirate complaints and trying to stop new stations and upgrades usually come from competitors, including engineers.
So would a 100w station in TC be in range for the remote monitoring facility in Allegan?
Probably not except for really good antennas and receivers. WLLS 99.3 got busted operating such a transmitter from the WLDR tower. The signal was so strong in Traverse City that it raised the eyebrows of MacDonald-Garber, Black Diamond, and Midwestern Broadcasting employees. They did some research and did some measurements, and reported it. As I recall, the FCC came out and made some measurements, and ordered the station to cease the unlicensed operation. I think they lucked out, because they were just given the opportunity to make it legal as a booster, and a slap on the wrist.
Many Federal buildings have monitoring stations now.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

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