The haters hate Obama more than they love America

Gordon Gekko · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 11:57 pm

I could have lived with McCain but Palin no way do I want someone that stupid second in line. So I went 3rd party 08.

I may this time as well but waiting to see who Romney picks as his running mate.

Fire Chief · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 8:05 am

Lemontin wrote:

Do you not know that others think the same of those who would vote for Obama.. ?

I am so glad you came out to support marriage equality Lemontin. Fantastic!

Lemontin · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 9:20 pm

Well, actually,, I'm of a separate thought than that...
So, here's the thing.. Marriage, as we know it here in the Western world, is defined by, and in the Bible as one man & one woman etc. etc... you all know the spiel.. You (the global you, not you the person) can twist little parts of it how you want to fit any agenda you want but, anyone of a clear, rational thinking mind who is familiar with the Bible, in its entirety, can come to no other honest conclusion.

I've said for years that those who want to further the cause of same sex "marriage" would be much further ahead if they stopped using the word 'marriage' and fought for legal civil unions, call them hemorages or whatever, but leave the word 'marriage' alone. That way those whose knickers are in a bunch would loosen their wad just a little.
I'm not saying this would eliminate the ruckus, but it would allow people like me to say.. eh.. whatever.

So, as for marriage, it I am all for one man, one woman.. (this is a relgious expression and not a legal-political one) but then that goes for divorce too. Too many Christians play fast and loose with that side of the marriage commands.
It's an easy way to justify the hatred they have of gay people. IMO, the opinion I get from reading the Bible, which I do a lot, a homosexual lifestyle is sin, but so is me noticing the fine tush on any woman I meet. Sin, is sin.. and I am as guilty as the next person.

As many here can attest, it's easy to see the hypocrisy in many of the Christians' arguments. Too many have to proper thought into what they believe.. but at the same time, I can empathize. Because although I may believe the same way, my fight is not with people. We're all fallen and I'm not better so legalizing or not has little effect on me.

As always, your mileage may vary...

Neckbeard · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 10:31 pm

The two things I try to never discuss with people... Politics and religion.

Bryce · **Joined:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:04 pm **Posts:** 1457

Quote:

The haters hate Obama more than they love America

No, this conservative loves America and, because of that, feels it's necessary to defeat Obama in the next election.

I can't speak for all the people that you label "haters" but I can speak for myself.

Personally, I don't think President Obama thinks or believes that American values and ethics are exceptional in any way. In fact I think he feels that some of our values and ethics are a scourge on the world. I believe deep in his heart he feels that the U.S. of A. should take its place as just another nation in the world and relinquish our super power status.

Another issue is his belief in income redistribution. In his heart of hearts I think he really thinks that income inequality is wrong, no matter the reason, that it's "Unfair". That the person who works 70 plus hours a week should be more than happy to be forced to share the results of that work with folks that are only willing to work 25 hours a week, or not at all.

The man said he wanted to fundamentally change and transform America. I believe this shows disdain for our country and shows his belief that the Untied States is bad. That we consume too much, have too much military power and that we should make amends to the rest of the world for being the capitalistic pigs that we are.

Do I think he is evil? No, not at all. I think he truly believes that his vision for America is what is necessary to become a better country. I just happen to vehemently disagree with his core beliefs and feel they are a detriment to our nation.

For the "dislike Obama and you're racist" crowd. I also strongly opposed the visions of Lyndon Baines Johnson, Richard Milhouse Nixon, and James Earl Carter, Jr. I guess that makes me only 25% a racist.

Sparky · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:35 am **Posts:** 1100

You may only be 25% racist but you are 100% uninformed.

We tried it your way.
It doesn't work.

Neckbeard · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 11:19 am

Bryce wrote:

Quote:

The haters hate Obama more than they love America

No, this conservative loves America and, because of that, feels it's necessary to defeat Obama in the next election.

I don't think you'll end up with something much different with Romney. They both largely act as moderate republicans.

Bryce wrote:

Personally, I don't think President Obama thinks or believes that American values and ethics are exceptional in any way. In fact I think he feels that some of our values and ethics are a scourge on the world. I believe deep in his heart he feels that the U.S. of A. should take its place as just another nation in the world and relinquish our super power status.

What is this based on?

Bryce wrote:

Another issue is his belief in income redistribution. In his heart of hearts I think he really thinks that income inequality is wrong, no matter the reason, that it's "Unfair". That the person who works 70 plus hours a week should be more than happy to be forced to share the results of that work with folks that are only willing to work 25 hours a week, or not at all.

There is more income redistribution from the bottom to the top than from the top to the bottom. Obama's been no FDR. That's one of the reasons why we haven't busted out of this yet.

Bryce wrote:

The man said he wanted to fundamentally change and transform America. I believe this shows disdain for our country and shows his belief that the Untied States is bad. That we consume too much, have too much military power and that we should make amends to the rest of the world for being the capitalistic pigs that we are.

I'd like to see that direct quote. I thought he wanted to change and transform how Washington does business. Regardless, if he felt we consume too much and had too much military power any reasonable person would agree. We consume somewhere around 19 of the 93 million barrels of oil the world consumes a day. There's only so much of the stuff and were poisoning our world with how we extract energy now. I'm a youngin' around here so I will defer to the old bucks on this, but during WWII weren't people asked to conserve rubber and nylon and things like that for the war effort? What's been the sacrifice today? Dubya actually cut taxes. However, I don't see anything out of Obama that suggests he thinks the US is "bad" or that we consume too much, have too much military power or that we should make amends for being capitalistic pigs. How could his actions as CIC point to anything in this vicinity?

Bryce wrote:

Do I think he is evil? No, not at all. I think he truly believes that his vision for America is what is necessary to become a better country. I just happen to vehemently disagree with his core beliefs and feel they are a detriment to our nation.

You have no idea what his core beliefs are though. When you look at his actions as president, he has acted more like a repub than a dem on many, many issues.

Bryce wrote:

For the "dislike Obama and you're racist" crowd. I also strongly opposed the visions of Lyndon Baines Johnson, Richard Milhouse Nixon, and James Earl Carter, Jr. I guess that makes me only 25% a racist.

So, you support the Dubya vision for America?????

Bryce · **Joined:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:04 pm **Posts:** 1457

Neckbeard wrote:

I'd like to see that direct quote.

You have no idea what his core beliefs are though. When you look at his actions as president, he has acted more like a repub than a dem on many, many issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrefKCaV8m4

Neckbeard · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 1:37 pm

Nice video. Wish he lived up to his words...

How does a video of before he was elected show his behaviors over the past 4 years? It doesn't. Why you quoted my comment regarding how he has behaved as president or his core beliefs for that video I have no idea. If he had an (R) next to his name you'd love the guy.

Bryce · **Joined:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:04 pm **Posts:** 1457

Neckbeard wrote:

You have no idea what his core beliefs are though. When you look at his actions as president, he has acted more like a repub than a dem on many, many issues.

Really? Would you care to name a few domestic or monetary policies that he enacted/pushed in the first two years of his presidency that have conservative written all over them?

Bryce · **Joined:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:04 pm **Posts:** 1457

Neckbeard wrote:

Nice video. Wish he lived up to his words...

How does a video of before he was elected show his behaviors over the past 4 years? It doesn't. Why you quoted my comment regarding how he has behaved as president or his core beliefs for that video I have no idea. If he had an (R) next to his name you'd love the guy.

Core beliefs and what he can and has gotten away with are two different things...

Remember what he said to our Russian friends...

Heh, he couldn't have an R next to his name any more than John F. Kennedy could have a D next to his name today.

Neckbeard · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 5:15 pm

The only thing he has "gotten away with" is doing everything your side wants. "Obamacare"? Modeled after what the guy he is running against did in his state. Almost a carbon copy of prior republican plans. "National Security"? Hasn't stopped dropping pants, gloves or bombs one bit. "Our Country's Finances"? Let's offer Social Security up on the table. We can cut, cut, cut our way out of this as long as we don't touch the military. What's the most left thing he has done? Student loan reform? That "reform" was something economists both right and left have suggested for a long time. The guy has acted as a moderate republican in democratic clothing. How do you not see that? In today's Republican party I see no room for the civil rights, immigration, or creation of the space program policies of JFK. His tax policy would clearly not be accepted by today's republican party and further, comparing his tax policy with that of Bush further proves the supply-side fallacy and backs Keynesian economics, wouldn't you say? Kennedy wanted to expand care for the elderly. Is that what we see in the Ryan plan?

Bryce · **Joined:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:04 pm **Posts:** 1457

Neckbeard wrote:

The only thing he has "gotten away with" is doing everything your side wants. "Obamacare"? Modeled after what the guy he is running against did in his state.

Nonsense argument. There is a big difference between a program instituted in an individual state and one instituted by the federal government. Provisions in The Affordable Care Act, as a federal program are prohibited by the COTUS. Individual states however are a different story.

Ever hear of the 10th Amendment?
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Key words here are states and people.

Neckbeard wrote:

"Our Country's Finances"? Let's offer Social Security up on the table.

Political theater at best. If you think he was serious and would have proposed it if he thought there was a snowball's chance in hell that it would go through, I've got an acre of lakefront property in Hamtramck for sale.

Neckbeard wrote:

We can cut, cut, cut our way out of this as long as we don't touch the military. What's the most left thing he has done? Student loan reform? That "reform" was something economists both right and left have suggested for a long time. The guy has acted as a moderate republican in democratic clothing.

OK, lets see, he's stacked the EPA with a bunch of zealots that are running roughshod and killing business interests throughout the United States. Moderate Republican?

I don't think the Wall Street bailouts would have happened under republican control either. Kind of funny that the same guy who garnered the largest contributions in history from the Wall Street crowd (he never mentions this in his anti-Wall Street speeches) gives billions of our dollars to the very people that contributed H*** amounts of money to his campaign.

Pretty much thumbed his nose at the notion of property rights when he bailed out the UAW. Some call it the GM bailout, but when stockholders, and note holders are pushed to the back of the line and the UAW ends up owning half the company, wouldn't you call that a leftist UAW bailout? Hmmmm, wonder how much money and support his campaign received from the UAW?

How many failed "stimulus programs" did he push through? Can't remember exactly, but, "ha, ha, ha, there weren't as many shovel ready jobs as we thought." ha ha.... Yeah real funny and REAL conservative.

I could go on...

Neckbeard wrote:

In today's Republican party I see no room for the civil rights, immigration, or creation of the space program policies of JFK.

Today's republican party is a big champion of civil rights and opportunity, LEGAL immigration (If I remember correctly the current republican candidate wants to staple Visa's to the diploma's of certain foreign college graduates) And, I just bet if we were in a cold war with another super power, well you know.

Neckbeard wrote:

Kennedy wanted to expand care for the elderly. Is that what we see in the Ryan plan?

You have me there, I've not taken the time to review the Ryan plan, but I shall. However, compare care for the elderly today vs the 1950's. I think it's a whole lot better today than it was then. Must be, life expectancy is WAY up from 1950. In fact in 1950, I'd most likely be dead now. Now, doesn't THAT make you with for the good old days? I'd be dead!

Bryce · **Joined:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:04 pm **Posts:** 1457

Fire Chief wrote:

[color=#0000FF]
United Nations? Another bullshit talking point jry. Get over listening to that cocksucker Glenn Beck.

As a person being on the record in support of complete rights for people in the gay community, Revox/Fire Chief, I would have to assume that because the sucking of a cock is something that is commonly done by gay folks, and from what I've heard, brings them great joy, you fully support Glen's right to be a cocksucker if he chooses to do so. In addition, by calling him a cocksucker, knowing you to be a champion of gay rights, you must also be a champion of Glen Beck by association!

:rollin

Neckbeard · **Posted:** Sat May 19, 2012 9:38 pm

Bryce wrote:

Neckbeard wrote:

The only thing he has "gotten away with" is doing everything your side wants. "Obamacare"? Modeled after what the guy he is running against did in his state.

Nonsense argument. There is a big difference between a program instituted in an individual state and one instituted by the federal government. Provisions in The Affordable Care Act, as a federal program are prohibited by the COTUS. Individual states however are a different story.

Ever hear of the 10th Amendment?
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Key words here are states and people.

Nice selective editing in avoiding that Republicans pushed forth almost the same thing 15 years and in the 1970's. I argue he adopted a republican plan, however the party has moved so far to the right today that they don't even want it. Is that incorrect? Now if you talk to any progressive or liberal they will tell you they want single payer or Medicare for all. "Obamacare" or the individual mandate portion may be found unconstitutional

Neckbeard wrote:

"Our Country's Finances"? Let's offer Social Security up on the table.

Political theater at best. If you think he was serious and would have proposed it if he thought there was a snowball's chance in hell that it would go through, I've got an acre of lakefront property in Hamtramck for sale.

What would have blocked it? The TEA Party wants that, they control the house and the Senate isn't filibuster-proof. Anything they negotiated could have potentially gotten passed through if it was right-wing enough. A real liberal lion would have never even considered the things he did. But no, nine months later, they still have no answer... funny how that works out. The idiots have had all this time to draft something up but all they can do is come up with ways to starve grandma and drop more pants. This guy's your wet dream, just wears the wrong color suit.

Neckbeard wrote:

We can cut, cut, cut our way out of this as long as we don't touch the military. What's the most left thing he has done? Student loan reform? That "reform" was something economists both right and left have suggested for a long time. The guy has acted as a moderate republican in democratic clothing.

OK, lets see, he's stacked the EPA with a bunch of zealots that are running roughshod and killing business interests throughout the United States. Moderate Republican?

Ummm Bryce... You know that there are less people working for the EPA today than in 1995, right? And in the 17 years since then they have had their funding expand by only 16.5% however total government spending has increased 151%, while our economy has grown 137% and our population has grown 20%? YES MODERATE REPUBLICAN. They don't tell you that in the "American Thinker" do they?

http://www.epa.gov/planandbudget/budget.html

I don't think the Wall Street bailouts would have happened under republican control either. Kind of funny that the same guy who garnered the largest contributions in history from the Wall Street crowd (he never mentions this in his anti-Wall Street speeches) gives billions of our dollars to the very people that contributed H*** amounts of money to his campaign.

LOLWUT?
Sen. John McCain said Wednesday that if the financial rescue bill fails in Congress again, "the present crisis will turn into a disaster," and Sen. Barack Obama told lawmakers it's time to "step up to the plate."

Both presidential candidates stressed bipartisanship as they called for Congress to act before heading to Washington to vote on the $700 billion financial rescue plan.

"We are square in the greatest financial crisis of our lifetimes. And I am pleased to report that today, I will be returning to the floor of the Senate to vote on a bill that marks a decisive step in the right direction," McCain said at a campaign event in Kansas City, Missouri.

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-10-01/poli ... M:POLITICS

Pretty much thumbed his nose at the notion of property rights when he bailed out the UAW. Some call it the GM bailout, but when stockholders, and note holders are pushed to the back of the line and the UAW ends up owning half the company, wouldn't you call that a leftist UAW bailout? Hmmmm, wonder how much money and support his campaign received from the UAW?

Part of holding debt and equity in a creature of statute is that it will not make good on obligations to pay it's debt or that it may expire. There was a clear and present danger to our economy and therefore it was necessary for the government and the business to pursue the course of action which they pursued.

How many failed "stimulus programs" did he push through? Can't remember exactly, but, "ha, ha, ha, there weren't as many shovel ready jobs as we thought." ha ha.... Yeah real funny and REAL conservative.

...And what percent of the stimulus was tax expenditures? Oh yeah, you don't like calling them what they are until it fits your argument. You couldn't get much more conservative than the way he progressed with the "stimulus".

I could go on...

I wish you would because you really haven't made a case for him being anywhere near the left yet... You completely avoided addressing the conservative history of "Obamacare", showed a fundamental misunderstanding of the EPA, laid out a somewhat bizarre conspiracy theory regarding the UAW and don't know the first thing about the stimulus. Please, go on...

Neckbeard wrote:

In today's Republican party I see no room for the civil rights, immigration, or creation of the space program policies of JFK.

Today's republican party is a big champion of civil rights and opportunity, LEGAL immigration (If I remember correctly the current republican candidate wants to staple Visa's to the diploma's of certain foreign college graduates) And, I just bet if we were in a cold war with another super power, well you know.

They're not racist, they just support singling people out for special searches based on the color of their skin, demanding to see additional forms of ID because someone looks a certain way, demand that the president prove he is an American citizen, and have leading voices in the house and senate who espouse disdain for the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

If you didn't notice we sorta are in another cold war with another super power... What are we doing to build an advantage? Wasting valuable resources on dropping pants and gloves when we should be investing in the future. We have done shit to prepare for the information age, meanwhile China is now taking jobs based on technical know-how of workers, not just the cost of labor. We have a cultural advantage on them in that the most fundamental resource for engineering creativity and our culture values greatly, whereas theirs is a much more conformist culture. If they break out of that mold we are up shit's creek. So yeah, I know, do you?

Neckbeard wrote:

Kennedy wanted to expand care for the elderly. Is that what we see in the Ryan plan?

You have me there, I've not taken the time to review the Ryan plan, but I shall. However, compare care for the elderly today vs the 1950's. I think it's a whole lot better today than it was then. Must be, life expectancy is WAY up from 1950. In fact in 1950, I'd most likely be dead now. Now, doesn't THAT make you with for the good old days? I'd be dead!

You can afford expensive floors and to not live in the gutter which is Sterling Heights, I am sure you could buy a few years if you had to :blink

The haters hate Obama more than they love America

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