WOAP in AM Stereo?

obc_radio · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:12 am

While driving back to Saginaw today, I happen to tune in to "The Big 1080" while driving through owosso, and to my surprise, I had a stereo signal on my delco UX-1. Unfortunately, my particular radio in my bonnevile is out of adjustment, and the audio "clips" whenever it locks onto a c-quam signal, but it nonetheless was full blown AM Stereo! As soon as I got back to Saginaw, I fired up my Carver TX-11a and sure enough, the stereo light lit. My antenna isn't setup right now, and it was nearly sunset so the signal was weak, but it still sounded decent.

How long has WOAP been broadcasting in C-Quam, or at least experimenting with it? I did notice a lot of clipping in the audio, but it may have been my equipment, I will test and find out tommorow

Regardless, I hope this wasn't a fluke and they stick with AM stereo. The music format really has a potential to show off how decent the technology sounds. I cant wait to fire up the Carver and record some air checks!

Ed Joseph · **Joined:** Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:27 pm **Posts:** 556

I scored a Realistic TM-152 C-QuAM tuner on eBay yesterday, I'll have to check that out. I know their TX is capable, and the exciter card was on the shelf, so perhaps Tony decided to try it out.

Steff_P_radiogirl · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:02 pm

Yes it is in stereo. A couple weeks ago while communicating with Tony on facebook , I kinda coaxed him into going stereo. In my Dodge Intrepid the old stereo quit, and the stereo that I bought out of a junkyard just happened to be the Chrysler RAZ radio which has AM stereo and AMAX. The only AMstations I heard in stereo were talk stations, which drove me nuts. He said he thought it would make them loose some signal, but I can still pick them up in the places I always can get them here in Grand Rapids. Now if we can get WAKV, WXLA, WYGR,and WION to go stereo that would be a real accomplishment. :blink

obc_radio · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:14 pm

I found absolutely no loss in signal. I had a full stereo clean signal from the west side of Lansing, all the way into Saginaw. Tell Tony it sounds great, and is just one more unique and stand out aspect of his superb station!

Now let's see if I can get an air check of the "classic countdown" show this afternoon on my 20hz-20khz capable receiver.

HugeEGO · **Joined:** Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:01 pm **Posts:** 34

Steff_P_radiogirl wrote:

Now if we can get WAKV, WXLA, WYGR,and WION to go stereo that would be a real accomplishment. :blink

The owners over at WION have talked about it, and have the "stuff" to do it, but as I understand it, they've got a "picture perfect" NRSC measurement and such a NICE sounding siginal with GREAT range these days that, unless it can be done without reducing the mono modulation, and the perfect bandwidth (requiring another measurement by engineers, I'm told) they won't do it. I've never heard it (AM stereo) but it would be kinda cool.

Ed Joseph · **Joined:** Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:27 pm **Posts:** 556

C-QuAM does NOT lose range in stereo... FM stereo DOES though.

obc_radio · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:40 pm

Ed Joseph wrote:

C-QuAM does NOT lose range in stereo... FM stereo DOES though.

I have never noticed a loss in range with stereo. My home theatre in my basement in Saginaw (which has about 15 halogen recessed lights on 4 noisy dimmer circuits) pulls in WLS in full stereo fine, with a simple tunable loop. I never had a problem getting a clean WSM stereo skywave up here in Michigan either. Also, who can forget WJR!

HugeEGO · **Joined:** Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:01 pm **Posts:** 34

If not adjusted properly, AM Stereo may sound great and yet kill (reduce) the AM mono! Its more "critical" in some ways than FM is!
Haven't heard WOAP yet, Tony.....what is your airchain? What's the final processor that you use for AM stereo/NRSC compliance?

Ed Joseph · **Joined:** Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:27 pm **Posts:** 556

I think it's still in the testing phase and is going to need some equipment upgrades and tweaking. Agreed, the L+R and L-R signals need to be just right or it'll cause distortion and platform inconsistencies. At least there isn't a directional array to fight with! I'm glad to see they're testing C-QuAM and not I-Bloc!

ADD in TC · **Joined:** Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:54 pm **Posts:** 147

This AM stereo stuff sounds nice,but I can't help to wonder why a smaller town AM would make an investment like this when so few people have radios that receive this signal.

Ed Joseph · **Joined:** Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:27 pm **Posts:** 556

ADD in TC wrote:

This AM stereo stuff sounds nice,but I can't help to wonder why a smaller town AM would make an investment like this when so few people have radios that receive this signal.

Far less investment than HD, as they already had all gear but a processor and monitor. There are still radios capable of decoding C-QuAM, including most HD radios. Secondly, WOAP clearly covers several counties and has a tremendous signal for a kilowatt. Why NOT try it? More people have a C-QuAM capable radio than HD capable. There are still a lot of AM stereo fans out there, and there are still a lot of stations which use AM stereo.

At least if someone doesn't have a stereo radio, the mono is just the same (actually better usually) as it was and it's not hissing and spewing hash 2 channels up and down the dial.

Steff_P_radiogirl · **Posted:** Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:26 pm

Ill put it this way. At home during daylight, my car radio can get 3 AM stations in stereo, while all of them are news talk stations, and can get no AM music stations in stereo(untill WOAP changed) in stereo. If one likes logic, that would drive them nuts. Also my Chrylser stereo is AMAX certified. But because of the prevailing attitude twards AM these days I can't take advantage of it. Ive heard both FM stereo(naturally) and AM stereo with AMAX. I'll take the AM setup over FM any day! Fm Is too clean, too sharp, and no resonance. AM when done right has a nice soft resonance to it with a nice richness to the full sound,with more ambience to the stereo. Ohwell, the heard mentality still prevails!

Ed Joseph · **Joined:** Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:27 pm **Posts:** 556

Well, Steph, I agree with you about AM (analog, anyway) having a more "rich and natural" sound than FM. The medium can carry 10Hz to 20+kHz no problem, it's just the crappy filters and narrow IF bandwidth in so many AM receivers that degrade it's sound. In fact, the vast majority of AM receivers can be modified to open up the bandwidth and response very easily by changing a couple of components. That said, there are still C-QuAM adapter modules available that can be added to most receivers to provide AM stereo capability.

C-QuAM stereo has a superior matrixing scheme that can provide better separation than FM stereo. C-QuAM isn't perfect, but it's definitely far more acceptable than Iniquity's retarded I-Bloc mess.

FM, by choice, mind you, just has a "dull plastic" sound to it on most stations due to the aggressive use of digital processors. A station running decent analog processing (8100a/triband AGC's) sound far better to me. Heck, a straight 8100a sounds fine as far as that's concerned. But PD's today just have to squash the last fraction of a decibel out of their audio so the mod monitor never drops below 99%... And "garbage in = garbage out" was never more true than it is today, when CD's are mastered with 60 dB of limiting, what do you think an additional 40+ dB of digital processing is going to do to the audio? Answer: a cheap, plastic airsound for all-out listener fatigue!

I know WSAM was in stereo when I worked up there in '87. Wonder why it's not in stereo now, seeing they are actually broadcasting a music format.

And I got to thinking about the "investment" involved, and they seriously need a newer mod monitor anyway, and an upgrade to stereo processing doesn't have to cost all that much. AM stereo processing has been put on the shelf at a lot of plants who were tricked into I-Bloc. Seems like something could be picked up fairly cheap.

Steff_P_radiogirl · **Posted:** Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:03 pm

AM 1230 WTKG going IBLOC here in Grand Rapids stinks up the AM dial. It sound terrible 50 kc either side od 1230 and their audio sound like shit when tuned right in. Why are they doing that on a talk station anyway! I don't worship the digital god like alot of others. Analog has done just fine. I don't believe in fixing what is not broken.

Ed Joseph · **Joined:** Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:27 pm **Posts:** 556

Ahhh, but our FCC believes in breaking what is just fine.

WOAP in AM Stereo?

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