WHMI shows up regularly in the Detroit PPM. I know they have many listeners in SW Oakland, especially near South Lyon.

The pattern of WHMI's signal the app shows is to the 60dBu contour, but my understanding is these stations have more protection (54dBu?). Also, if you look at the app and compare it to the one for 104.7 a while back, they are very similar. Both have the deep null to the south, even though WRQN is much more south and has less power than WIOT.

Where I live for example, in the car 93.5 is mostly WHMI, but at times WRQN will appear in and out. My home receiver with adjustable antenna allows me to receive either one somewhat clear, by moving the antenna toward the proper station's tower. There are even rare occasions where the CBC station in London will try and pop in.

what kind of stereo are you using, my homedics alarm clock can get WHMI in the early morning from 7 to 9:30 here In Romulus

My point exactly, simonsays.

hereornot, a Class A is protected to the 60 dBu domestically, but 54 dBu under treaty from a station outside the US to the US station within its borders. Class As are frequently listened to outside the 60 dBu, as it may well be line of sight to 20-25 miles, and the signal may have less variability with location and fading than a more powerful Class B station twice as far away. At 40 miles, terrain is almost always an issue.

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"I'm meteorologist Arthur Mometer."

"Those of you who think you know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."

"Lies have to be repeated and repeated to be believed. Truth stands on its own merit."

WHMI is pretty strong here in plymouth on all of my radios, in fact it makes DXing on 93.7 and 93.3 a little bit sketchy.

92.7 in warren or pretty much anywhere north of 96 would work just fine. Especially at only 99 watts. 94.3 the bone gets crushed here regularly under any type of tropo event by CKSY.

BTW, I'm pretty sure Mr. Martz is/has been reading this board. One of his comments to me during our meeting was "I better watch how I behave, because anything that happens might end up posted on the internet, right?"

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My DTV DX reports
http://www.rabbitears.info/dxlocation.php?id=257

I lived in Lapeer for a year. I did enjoy having both the Flint and Detroit locals on cable... however this is a Flint area. I can't seem to realize why Lapeer County would be designated a Detroit market when Flint is 15 minutes west, if even that... yet the Palace of Auburn Hills is 40 minutes south on a good day...

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Note to WGN... bring back Steve Cochran ASAP.

I thought Livingston was in the Ann Arbor market, and Monroe (or portions of it) were clustered with Toledo. Things may have changed though.

For radio, both Livingston and Monroe Counties in entirety are part of the Detroit market (as is Lapeer).

The Ann Arbor market consists of Washtenaw County only.

The reason the Detroit Arbitron market is so massively large (in terms of # of counties) is because local station owners wanted to prop up Detroit's market ranking. Since all commercial Detroit FM stations have similar signal patterns over SE Michigan at large, I suspect the current market footprint definition was approved with wide support.

Conversely, the Grand Rapids Arbitron market only includes 2 counties, even though Grand Rapids-based stations predominantly influence listening habits over a half dozen or more counties. Reason? There are a number of Class A signals and rimshooters whose ratings might become diluted if additional counties are added; therefore, they've resisted any & all proposals to expand the market's boundaries.

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Please bring back the WOTV Bowling Classic!!!

This is an issue many purchasers of advertising have with Arbitron. They allow too many variables to stray from the federal definitions of population measurement. Arb is regarded by many to be simply a shell game. Why isn't Arbitron using the same geographic boundaries that the census bureau uses?

Also, to date, no one has been able to tell me what percentage of the population doesn't listen to radio. They make the leap of assuming everyone 18+ is listening, which simply is not the case. Can anyone here drill into Arb's methodology and tell me what percentage of Detrot's TSA listens or does not listen?

It's as if the whole methodology was created by used car dealers. Arbitron is a joke.

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"Actually that's kind of the problem with Radio, for every real legend, you get about fifteen tired old gasbags who stick around too long."

i think the Grand Rapids arbitron includes Muskegon and Newaygo Counties too, Does the detroit arbitron Include Essex. i know the Detroit TV Market Includes Essex, Kent and Lambton Too.

No and no.
http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/Arb_U ... Map_11.pdf

Arbitron stops at the border as does Nielsen for TV.
From a clearance standpoint it might be part of Detroit, but not for Nielsen, as few US national advertisers want or will pay for viewers in Canada.
As far as Nielsen is concerned, the Detroit market does not include EK or L.
Similarly, Buffalo/Niagara Falls does not include St. Catherines, Niagara Falls (ON), Hamilton or Toronto,
Burlington/Plattsburgh does not include Montreal,
Bellingham does not include Vancouver or Victoria, etc..

The Arbitron Metro Survey Area most certainly does not. That's the one that matters and determines market rank. The Metro Survey Area consists of Kent & Ottawa Counties only.

The Total Survey Area includes these and many more counties, but is seldom referenced since GR, Muskegon, and Kalamazoo / BC stations are all co-mingled. Moreover, I believe the Total Survey Area ratings are only measured once or twice annually (I'm not 100% certain, though).

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Please bring back the WOTV Bowling Classic!!!

That's why I like coming here- you learn so much!

Weird thing about Monroe County- while it is part of Detroit in both radio and TV, it seems most of the locals use Toledo media, because those stations cover them better. Detroit mostly ignores Monroe unless it's a major story.

someone said a couple months ago on here that Essex, kent, lambton were Nielsen TV Markets.

I have no idea how TV markets are defined on the Canadian side of the border, but I can tell you with certainty that no Candian territory is included in Nielsen's Designated Market Area for Detroit.

The Detroit TV market includes the following counties:
Sanillac
Lapeer
St. Clair
Livingston
Oakland
Macomb
Washtenaw
Wayne
Monroe

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Please bring back the WOTV Bowling Classic!!!

nielsen is confusing, because i thought Lapeer and Sanilac Were Flint/Saginaw Market.